The S*** They Don't Want You to Know

It's not a big secret that the music industry is a tough business. The behind the scenes of a worldwide tour, creating chart-topping hits, and the "luxury" lifestyle, lies a dark place that is far from "entertainment". For today's episode, join Skrizz and Adam as they reveal the shocking secrets  - both in the music and startup world - the secrets that are hidden behind the surface.

Transcript

Adam   0:02
Talking music, building businesses, and the grit in the journey. We're Skrizz and Adam and welcome to The Rise.

Skrizz   0:13
And we are rolling. Skrizz and Adam episode 7. I want to give a big shout-out to everyone who has been listening to the podcast we have launched. Locked and loaded and very cool. Adam, how are you today?

Adam   0:25
I'm doing great. Yeah. It's uh, it's good to be back in the studio. It was good to have you up in Saratoga again a few days ago and yeah, we appreciate everyone that's been listening, commenting, sharing their thoughts on it. So we, we love and appreciate you guys.

Skrizz   0:37
Yeah, we're uh, it's the rise we're starting somewhere.

Adam   0:41
Hopefully going somewhere else.

Skrizz   0:44
Plummeting downhill episode 10 of that. Um, okay, cool. So you drove down from Saratoga today and, um, we kind of hopped on a call on the way down thinking about what we wanted to talk about.

Um, I had something kind of pop up on my radar and it was funny. Cause the idea you had for the show, um, felt like was the exact same kind of topic. So, uh, the general topic we're going to talk about or what we want to discuss. For me, what is something that is shocking or, or people just don't know about the music industry and for you the same thing, what is something that's truly shocking or people just don't know about the startup, um, business.

So, uh, I'll kick it off. I'm, I'm pretty pumped about this one. Actually. I truly believe that, I truly believe that probably 99.99999999% of people that even think about the record business, do not know this and that 95% of artists and at least like entry-level managers, don't, don't really know this. Um, so I'd say before streaming blew up in 2015, I mean the goal was to get a record deal.

Everyone wants to get a record deal. It's been, you know, probably since the 1950s all the way through the two thousands. If you want to make it as an artist, she needed to get a record deal. Um, they were the gatekeepers that controlled radio got you in stores, got you on MTV, everything like that. Um, but it's always been known that like record labels are shady and they rape you financially and it's like selling your soul, whatever.

But no one really knew the financial breakdown of that. So I think what's most shocking. And I'll tell you about is. The entry, the format of an entry-level of record deal is essentially the worst bank loan in the history of bank loans.

Adam   02:33
So, talk me through that.

Skrizz   02:34
Sure. Um, so this is. Think of it this way, and then say, you're, you got a hot song, you got a super hot song. You're a brand new artist. You only get signed to a record deal, and they're going to give you a $1 million advance. Obviously, everyone's thrilled to get a million dollars, the million-dollar advance, and you're going to get an eight-something, standard would be like an 87, 13 split, which already sounds terrible.

So think of it this way. You're thinking that out of the profits, out of the profits, the record labels going to make 83%, no, 87%, and you're going to make 13. Sometimes it's a lot lower than that, but that's pretty standard. So, what do you assume that means you got a million dollars? What do you assume that means?

Adam   03:17
So right off the bat, you say 87, 13 split.

Skrizz   03:20
Yeah.

Adam   03:21
So you get a million dollars.  I would assume if you turn that million dollars into $2 million, so you have a million-dollar profit. I would assume that they get 870,000 and you get 130,000.

Skrizz   03:31
Question for you. Does that sound good or does it sound terrible?

Adam   03:34
It depends. I mean, if you need the money you need the money. Cause the, the two ways to look at it would be one. Would you have been able to make that million-dollar profit without them and without their capital and other resources? Or could you have done that on your own?

Skrizz   03:46
Whatever. It's an open discussion. The part is you're a hundred percent wrong. That's not the way it works. That's not the way it works at all. I had a friend who was worked in music forever and just learned this through a tick talk. They recoup the million dollars out of the 13% royalty, which makes no fucking sense at all. So hear me out essentially the record late in order for you to become out of debt for your million dollars.

The record label has to make $7.7 million and then you start profiting. For every million dollars, then they take 870 and you take 130. They can make, they can make, they will make $10 million before you make $2 million.

Adam   04:34
Yep. So walk me, let's walk back a little bit. So first, where is that 7.7 number come from?

Skrizz   04:40
Sales. and who the fuck is going to like, whoa, most artists are never going to hit that. So essentially an artist can have a number one hit song on the radio and be touring like crazy and be in debt.

Adam   04:51
Right.

Skrizz   04:52
That's the model.

Adam   04:53
But even though the, the, like, why, so in my example. They gave you a million dollars. You make a million dollars. Why do they not get the 870,000? You get the 130. Why does it start at like 7 million?

Skrizz   05:05
Cause it's recouping out of the 13%. So essentially the 83, no matter what. Oh, 87, no matter what always goes to them. So essentially the 13% has to add up to a million, 13% of seven. 13% of 7.7 equals a million. And then you recouped. So, out of the gate, they're making an 83% profit, no matter what.

Adam   05:31
Okay. And that makes sense. Now then that's wild. It makes sense, but it doesn't make sense.

Skrizz   05:36
It's a loan about 800%, right? So essentially you have to make 800% of what you were given in order to, and even in a more favorable deal where it's 25 75 and it's a recruitment deal. That's still fucking terrible. It's really, really, really bad.

Now I'm gonna play devil's advocate. Um, I had a dinner with my lawyer a while back and he was talking about. It's like, it just kind of is what it is. It's like, they're assuming the risk. So if it's one in 20 artists are gonna make it big, you know, I'm sure Bruno Mars, I think probably at a similar deal or something like that.

And he ended up making, you know, yielding a hundred million dollars. The label kept like 85 of it. You know what I mean? And that funded everybody else. So I think most people just have no idea. That's how it works. And essentially when it's like selling your soul, it really is like they might have the resources to get you off the ground, but from there, you're gonna have to figure out how to make money.

Adam   06:30
Right. So, okay. All right. So that is a little bit different than even when I was about to ask you. Cause that last point you just made, you're saying they give you the money, and then they're like, all right, bud. Figure it out.

Skrizz   06:40
Yeah, totally.

Adam   06:41
That's why they're incentivized though, to help you scale, help you grow because the more money you make, the more money they make.

Skrizz   06:47
So that's in theory, I think a big shift in the music industry happened in 2015, like when I was on Atlantic records. Um, I remember her sitting down with, um, a master engineer. It was like done all the big stuff on the radio. And he said for the first time in his career, he's noticed that the record labels allocate 95% of their resources only to the top 5%.

So essentially their model is to give a bunch of kids, 150,200, $300,000. Do like 2030 of them a year with really bad deals and they're going to fight for their life. And whichever one makes it to the top pays for all the rest of them. That's the basic model.

Adam   07:26
So basically, and I'm curious how you felt going into your deal with Atlantic?

Skrizz   07:32
I had no idea that, like I knew I had a good deal, but like, it was a good deal by that standard. Like that's the standard. That's crazy to think.

Adam   07:40
When did you realize it wasn't a good deal or was it not a good deal? Was it always a good deal?

Skrizz   07:45
In 2014, It was a good deal. There was literally no other way of selling records in 2014. I mean, there like free cases, like insane clown posse or jam bands, but it didn't fall into any of those categories. In 2014, there was no way of selling records. Like I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday. It's like, if I want to have a hit record in. Um, I dunno, UK or whatever. Do you need the label sending a sales team out there?

That's literally saying convincing the stores to put my record on the shelf and hang a flyer and put like, like now it's literally just like push a button Spotify. And then like, if people in the UK, like it they're going to like it, that's just, it just is what it is, you know?

Adam   08:25
So when you're working with, or talking to a new artist and they're asking your advice on getting a record label or not getting records. What do you say do it? Don't do it. What's your advice?

Skrizz   08:37
I gave a bit of advice to a girl two years ago. Um, essentially the advice was, if it doesn't work, you're going to hate your record label. And if it does work, you're going to hate your record label. That's it. That's it.

Adam   08:50
One of those famous lose-lose.

Skrizz   08:53
It's like, like, I mean, think about it. I mean, I think it's why so many huge artists that signed off rip and became massive like there's always like, they're always going into hibernation or there's always drama and there's always things it's like, how do you live with yourself?

Knowing you like, like this is for me, this is why I am independent. This is the question that everyone asks why I choose to be independent and I'm not signing again until I have huge leverage is like, how do you live with yourself knowing that what you did generate a hundred million dollars and you made like seven, like how can you live with that?

Adam   09:21
To play devil's advocate though on that point is a lot, a lot of times we need the capital to give us that boost.

Skrizz   09:28
Of course.

Adam   09:29
And if you don't have that capital, you can't grow an even if you don't make a penny from it, like let's say you make $7 million and then nothing else after that. Just by getting to the point of making $7 million, your followers grew, you're listening, your green valuing grows.

Skrizz   09:44
Oh, this is the exact logic of the record label. I mean, it's, it's not like they're Satan. They're not, they're not like killing. Maybe they are killing people like basements. I don't really know. But, um, I mean the logic is justified. It's just. Very high stakes risk taking, I guess, essentially.

Adam   10:02
I remember my main investor in my tech company. He always said it's better to have a small piece of a big pie versus a big piece of a small pie.

Skrizz   10:10
I'll totally disagree with that.

Adam   10:11
Why is that?

Skrizz   10:12
You can eventually turn that big small pie into a big pie. I mean, you think at the end of the day when like the world comes to an end.

Adam   10:18
Yeah. Would you rather have 1% of a billion dollars or a hundred percent of $200,000?

Skrizz   10:24
I mean, that's a really specific example, so it's a no brainer.

Adam   10:27
Right. But in a lot of situations, though, you need the capital or you need the resources to help get you to the next level. And once you get to that next level, then you just keep growing and growing and growing on top of that.

Skrizz   10:37
Sure. I mean, it's a case by case, it's totally case by case. But back to the original question, I think people don't realize that literally, it's, there are so many artists that have no money. Like straight up, have no money and legally they're in debt actually. And you think they're popping

Adam   10:57
So right to that point, let me ask a question then based on that. So how many artists, let's just say 10 artists, roughly 10 artists that don't have money. How many of those, if they have, a million bucks or whatever, that amount of capital you need to like start to get yourself to the next level. If they had the capital, they'd be well-known and top 40 type artists.

Skrizz   11:19
No, I'm talking about the opposite. I'm telling people that are well-known that have no money. That is what I'm talking about.

Adam   11:23
Do they have a record label or don't have a record label?

Skrizz   11:25
I'm talking about artists that are, have hit songs on the radio.

Adam   11:27
Got you. When you assume that they're killing it.

Skrizz   11:28
There are legends out there who are broke like literally broke.

Adam   11:33
Broke because they're not making money off the record label or broke because like they're doing stupid shit with their money.

Skrizz   11:37
Both. Literally both. I mean like a lot of rappers have no money, like straight up have no money.

Adam   11:44
Let's just focus on the record label piece instead of just like.

Skrizz   11:48
Sure. But I'm focusing on. Yeah. Like they're just not making money off their records.

Adam   11:50
Right. And you would just assume they are.

Skrizz   11:52
Like artists sign initially and they got like that $2 million. And then like the $2 million gone. And six years later, it's like, I have no other forms of income.

Adam   12:00
And your likeness.

Skrizz   12:01
Remember seeing like a country artist. I was just whatever. I don't want to get too specific. Like a country artist. She was like kind of a household name. And, uh, I was a, he, she, so it's not gender specific.

It's like on the radio constantly. And like, I looked up what they made in a year and it was like, it's like might as well work at McDonald's. You know what I mean? They made like 30K you know, and it was like, well, no, they, they fought for their life. Got the record deal.  Probably got 150K then COVID happened.

So they're not playing shows. And even when they are playing shows, they want to make it seem big. So they're paying five musicians on stage, so they're not making any money, you know?

Adam   12:37
And every Spotify check they get, for example, again, 87 13, roughly just using those numbers.

Skrizz   12:43
No, every Spotify check is going straight to the label.

Adam   12:45
Right. Straight to label. And they're only disseminating money to the artist if they pass that certain threshold.

Skrizz   12:51
Which is super high, and the whole point is they want to give them another advanced before they pass that threshold to constantly keep them in the red. That's the goal.

Adam   12:58
Most record deals are how long? Five years, two years, 20 years?

Skrizz   13:02
I mean, dude, it can be forever. It's like recoup, it's called a recoupment deal. So it's until you get out.

Adam   13:07
Really? So just so, and they basically own.

Skrizz   13:11
It's just a bank loan.

Adam   13:12
Interesting.

Skrizz   13:13
It's all just a really bad bank loan.

Adam   13:15
But by recoup. Do you mean they recoup the million dollars that they gave you?

Skrizz   13:19
No, they recoup the whole 7.7. That's the whole point of what I'm trying to say. Recouping means hitting 7.7 for every million.

Adam   13:25
So how would you get out of it?

Skrizz   13:27
Oh, I just asked of. For me, it's so specific because I was in a record deal and, uh, I just asked of and I asked the, told them I wasn't giving the money back. I mean, everything comes down to legalities.

Mine was a really weird case where like, I just had a good lawyer. He was just like, we're not giving the money back. And that's it. And they're like, that's, that goes back to their thing though. They're willing to take so many Ls because when they hit it big, they hit it big.

Adam   13:53
It's the exact same thing with the venture capital startup world. Like they don't mind losing 9 out of 10, they know eight out of 10 at least startups that they invest in are going to fail. They just want that one. That's going to be a, you know, $5 billion exit. And that pays for everyone.

Skrizz   14:08
Yes, exactly. That's exactly what this is. I think there was like an independent label. I don't remember. I don't want to speak incorrectly, but it was an independent label that signed a massive like metal band. And I think they had, like, the metal band was just so big that it funded essentially like 30 other failed artists on the label.

Adam   14:26
What did most artists think about record labels? Like if I talk to 10 artists like you.

Skrizz   14:30
There was like a big shift, I will say, uh, someone I work really closely with, we really value their opinion. They were very pro record labels for like the first eight years I knew them. And then 2019 came around and they're like, yeah, this is just, this is. I mean, the big thing I love seeing now is all these rappers who have huge know like millions of followers and Instagram and Spotify and Apple and this massive user base, they're all going indie now.

And they released a song. So essentially they release a song and it gets a hundred million streams. It's about half a million dollars in their pocket and they own it. They didn't need someone to like. To make the record it costs like a few thousand bucks. Some of them producing the records themselves. It costs nothing.

So it's like, what do I need an advance for? Just like a lot of them are like, I am rich. I just want to get richer. And don't want people getting in the way of what I do. A lot of, uh, for that rapper, Kyle recently just turned down like a six or a $10 million, like. The, what do you call it? Re-up uh, renegotiating with his label and he just said, nah, he just passed on it and kept it himself.

Adam   15:31
What's crazy like, uh, one of the terms I was hated here and just cause one of those like overused terms, like every industry has their overused terms. In the startup world, like democratizing is the most overused word. I hated it. I hated hearing it, but that makes sense. Basically. It's like you're democratizing access.

You're like giving everybody access to something. So like, oh, too many cooks in the kitchen as well. Yeah. So it'll make more sense after I described this So basically, what social media has done is it's democratized, like people not needing to work with a record label, because if you blow yourself up on Instagram or TikTok or wherever, you don't need a record label anymore to blow you up cause you already got a million followers.

Skrizz   16:11
And more specifically blow yourself up on Spotify or Apple or Amazon. They mean to you, you already believe, you already did it.

Adam   16:17
You already did what they're supposed to help you with.

Skrizz   16:19
That's exactly. You already are selling the records. It's already happening.

Adam   16:22
And what's more valuable than anything is like, if you do have the eyeballs, whether it's on a podcast. Whatever you want to call it.

Skrizz   16:28
Shoutout to everyone listening right now.

Adam   16:30
Yep. Shout out. Well, no matter what it is, Spotify, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, whatever that's money, your brand is your capital. And if you don't need a record label, then you're good. What do you think the future is at then at record labels? Cause it seems like label servicing losing a little bit

Skrizz   16:46
Like so distribution label services. So essentially like, a distribution deals are pretty standard right now. And those, those are just building up like crazy. Where it's like, I released the record they provide, they get it in all the stores. They provide marketing services.

They often give you advances, you know, 30, a hundred thousand dollars, whatever if you need money. And if you bring it to radio, wherever they'll take 25% or it'll take 20 off the top, that's becoming very standard. And I think labels are going to smarten up. I think they already are. I'm not that involved, but where they're just, they're just taking a percentage.

I think that's just the name of the game. That's just like, it's like, if you're already selling records, let me just help you sell records and take 50 to 10% or whatever.

Adam   17:24
That's much more the traditional model. Like if I'm looking to raise money, you have X percent and I have Y percent, but we're all rowing in the same direction. If we make a dollar, we're go both gonna make money. Uh, but we're gonna make a different percentage of that dollar.

Skrizz   17:36
That being said, I don't think anyone's going to go into a situation like that unless they are already selling records. You know what I mean? Like I don't see universal rec like for, uh, Uh, just an example of someone who's doing that to my understanding, uh, Jake Balvin, who is like the most streamed artist on earth, there's top three most-streamed artist on earth.

He's Colombian, just like reggaeton music, huge. He has like a deal with a universal. They don't ever give him a dime. He funds his music videos. He funds everything and they just make sure everyone hears his music and they take 25% or something like that.

Adam   18:09
That's the way it should be.

Skrizz   18:10
But the name of the game is he's Jake Balvin and he's huge.

Adam   18:12
He's got the level.

Skrizz   18:13
I would love something like that. I don't think I could get something like that in a position one, but at the thing, a brand new artists. So I have brand new artist. It goes back to that. Um, giving advice to, you know, a girl I knew who's signing a record label is like, if it doesn't work, you're going to hate him. If it works, you're gonna hate him, but this is kind of your one shot cause it's not working right now.

Adam   18:30
Right. Let me, uh, let me put a hypothetical out there. I'm a big fan and I don't give a shit about the person's Skrizzly Adams. All I care about is I love his music. Love his music. Every time he puts out a new song, I'm all over it. He's the best.

Skrizz   18:45
Cool.

Adam   18:46
Do I  want you to sign with a record label or do I want you to be Indy? Like, how am I going to get better music?

Skrizz   18:54
I know the exact question you were saying. Um, it's a really, really, really, really good question. Cause that's the thing I constantly have to explain to people is like I'm in a fine, much better financial position than probably a lot of my peers who are on record.

I mean, vast majority of my peers, um, I want to say it doesn't matter. I want to say as long as they keep, like, I want to say the average person at the song keeps showing up on Spotify every four weeks. And you liked the song. I don't know. Here's a question for you. If you see that the single came out a month ago and now it has a hundred million streams, like, but you're not invested in Skrizzly Adams. How do you feel about that?

Adam   19:33
I don't know if it makes a difference to me, but I can say with art, I can't think of an artist off the top of my head but.

Skrizz   19:38
my music is visible. The short question, my view. Out of the most minimal resources, I will make my music visible enough for everybody.

Adam   19:45
I don't even mean just making a visible, like I'm a huge fan, you know, in this hypothetical example.

Skrizz   19:49
But if it was playing on the radio, you'd be fired up something like that, but you're not invested in me. So I don't really know.

Adam   19:54
Right, but I'm saying more of like, is your music going to change? Like you signed with a record label. So my whole thing is like, now, do you become too mainstream? Your, your label wants to get on the radio. So now you're not the real Skrizzly Adams. You're not playing that's total darkness, like tipping point again.

Skrizz   20:10
You don't really know, but yeah, that's totally possible.

Adam   20:13
You sound like just a sell-out basically. Does Skrizzly Adam sell out, he gets a million-dollar check?

Skrizz   20:19
The good things I will say about the record business right now is like, like A and R is becoming like a non-existent thing where they're, they're not really doing much.

Adam   20:26
A and R, explain.

Skrizz   20:27
Uh, artists repertoire, like the guy who. Back at that. I mean, for Frank Sinatra, it's the guy who was picking the songs for Frank Sinatra and telling him, I mean, Frank's downstairs probably doing it all himself, but like, um, I don't know.

Adam   20:42
Like picking the song.

Skrizz   20:43
Giving you new notes, like helping you with your sound. You're you're the guy holding your hand at the record label essentially.

Adam   20:47
Like your manager?

Skrizz   20:49
No, the manager. Isn't it. ANRs artists and repertoire, they are art. A and R is the guy who signs you and the guy who helps you make your album. In some cases, they do absolutely nothing. In some cases they do everything. But nowadays, like that's called artist development where they take the 15-year-old girl and she gets the vocal lessons and studio time.

And three years later, she's Brittany Spears. The days of better over that doesn't really happen anymore. Nowadays. It's like, you got hit single, is it blown up on TikTok sign the paperwork. So in that case, I think, I think, um, I think it's not like an issue, you know?

Adam   21:23
Talk to me through this. I mean, if I'm, let's say I'm a record label. I say Skrizz, let's sit down. Let's talk about how we can work together. What are the big points that you would ask today? Being 30-year-old Skrizz. Shout out with just your birthday. Happy birthday. How was the aquarium?

Skrizz   21:44
Oh, I didn't go.

Adam   21:45
You didn't go to the aquarium?

Skrizz   21:46
I just went to AC. Yeah, we will get into that off camera.

Adam   21:49
All right. Anyway, so, uh, so anyway, you're sitting down with me. What are the main three or one or whatever many questions that you would ask today that 22 year old Skrizz?

Skrizz   21:58
I know exactly. Well, number one. Are we doing back catalog? Are we doing current catalog or are we doing future catalog? What are we focused on?

Adam   22:06
Back catalog? Like old songs?

Skrizz   22:09
Old songs. Yeah. Old songs? Okay. My first album is young, man. Are we, are we choosing, like, I recently met with the label and they're like, oh, you have several hit songs whatever. Like they might be old, but we think they can still be hits. So are we doing that? That's a huge factor.

If they buy those, I can no longer receive monthly paychecks from them. So I need you to know if you're going to break. That's a huge thing. Um, number two is like, are we doing current catalog or, um, or can I finish where I'm at? Finish my album cycle and we're going to start fresh together. That's the number one thing I care about the price between essentially buying three albums and buying one album is a massive difference.

So I need to know that. Essentially, it's like, if you buy three albums from me, I'm never going to receive a monthly paycheck again. So you bet. And so that's the, so let's say they want three albums, so then I need to know like, what the fuck are you doing? You know, like, are we working on an album every. Essentially, what is it like, are we doing radio?

If you're doing radio, are you really doing radio? Is it going to happen? Are we going to fail? Um, are we doing touring? Like, am I going to be an opening act for huge things all the time? These are things I can't do on my own. These are just simple touring and radio. I can't do it on my own. I mean like huge touring.

Adam   23:20
Is that the job of a manager in a way.

Skrizz   23:23
No, there's nothing with the manager.

Adam   23:24
But the way I, so the way I look, I hear you talking about like a record label. Basically, like they're, they're your VP of sales, in like the business world. Like they're selling you to play the show, to get on this radio station. They're just selling you against this market.

Skrizz   23:41
The main thing that they have, like, so I don't want to drop any names. There's like a handful of people in the music business that just have more power than anything on earth. And it's like, I can go to a bunch of people that want to invest in me collect a million dollars at a great interest rate, like not a 700 interest rate, like a 2% interest rate or something like that.

And I still can't do what signing with Mr. Z we'll call him can do. Cause he's just that powerful. You know what I mean? When I go to radio, he calls the radio and that's just the difference. So that's just what you get. That's like, you need one of those guys in your court and that's something you can't buy. Or some guy guys just blow up so much of a fan base they never need to do that.

Adam   24:24
Hypothetically let's take one of your. Throw me one of your old songs that you think should have 10x the amount of streams that has.

Skrizz   24:31
I'm not qualified.

Adam   24:32
I'll just say it that, let's just say tipping point, you know what I'm saying?

Skrizz   24:34
Sure, sure, sure, sure.

Adam   24:35
Would you trade tipping point having 10x the streams on Spotify? Let's just say, or just in general.

Skrizz   24:40
We'll say a hundred million streams.

Adam   24:41
Let's say a hundred million streams for tipping point. But you don't make a dollar off of it.

Skrizz   24:46
I know exactly the answer to that question. Great question. For me, and I was actually talking about this in a record deal that whatever, um. For me, it was like, I didn't want to give up a full album.

Like I would keep nine records and give up one knowing I was taking a financial, yes. I would take a financial L in order for a success L as long as I wasn't giving up all the B sides. Does that make sense? Because the, B sides are gonna pay for everything else. Right? If tipping points hitting a hundred billion streams, then trickle down is going to be crazy.

So it's like, let's say. They were going to buy it for something ridiculous, like 25K or something like that. And the recoupments didn't make any sense. And, um, yeah, I would do it. Definitely. It seems like a good play.

Adam   25:32
Interesting.

Skrizz   25:33
Big old record would be a plaque. I like plaques.

Adam   25:36
How many plaques? I've seen a couple of plaques in here.

Skrizz   25:37
Yeah. All right. Good question. So let's pivot, we're kind of running along here. What is the most shocking thing in the start-up world?

Adam   25:46
I'm not going to use this, this, there could be the same version of shocking, uh, for the startup world for raising money but I won't use that as an example. Um, the example, I guess I'll use is just a lot of this is probably in a lot of industries, but just, there's a lot of fluff in general.

Skrizz   26:04
What do you mean pluff?

Adam   26:06
Especially in the tech startup world, but really all worlds. Everyone tries to paint a picture. Like everything a rose. Everything's roses, we're on the rise.

Skrizz   26:14
I mean, that's every industry, that's literally every industry, the CEO on the phone, it's like, you gotta do this. You gotta do that. You got to do that.

Adam   26:19
But especially in the tech startup world, because the whole, a lot of it is like the picture where if you can paint the picture that you're growing and you're scaling and everything's amazing, then you raise your next capital. Then you get this massive.

Skrizz   26:30
I've seen this show, uh, what's this. Where, where they, uh, they, they essentially got all the bots and all, they did all this fake stuff, and then the investors all came, and then he just nerds out, embracing it, it's fake.

Adam   26:44
So much of that shit, and you talk to these people, like, I have a.

Skrizz   26:47
Fake until you make it?

Adam   26:49
Yeah. A friend of mine in the industry, she was telling me how all these externally, everyone thinks they're on top of the world. She's like this company just gave me this massive check, little, do they know everything's fucking breaking in the background and no one's even seen this.

Skrizz   27:03
That's awful.

Adam   27:04
I'm like, that is awful. Um, but it happens far more than you realize. Um, and it's, it's a little bit ugly. It's a lot ugly. I mean, I think it's called Thanos or Theranose I forgot. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. They basically said that.

Skrizz   27:19
There's a documentary, it's amazing with what's her name? She is as an evil woman, raging bitch. Total disaster, it was like a huge level scam. But the thing is, it wasn't a scam because she believed it. That was the crazy party.

Adam   27:32
That's not that uncommon. There was a company.

Skrizz   27:45
She literally had her, she was a sociopath. She had herself fooled that this was going to work. But the part that blew my mind with that one. Yeah. She had no history of medicine, like at all, like people go to school for like 12 years to learn medicine and she's going to revolutionize the medical field?

Adam   27:52
Well, we all want to believe the story. We all want to believe the dream. We all want to believe it as possible, but there are true sociopaths out there. I don't know who she is. I don't want to, you know, whatever.

Skrizz   28:03
She's going to jail.

Adam   28:04
I mean, she's going to jail. She'd get some fucked up stuff, but that's not like I've heard other examples. There's a great company. Obviously. I'm not going to mention it in Chicago. Blowing up. They were like the top company, all of a sudden, bam.

They found out everything was a lie. Everything they were sharing with our advertisers was a lie. And they went from being the hottest company to, I don't know if they're still around, but they, they got in quite a bit of trouble just because they were just fraud, fraud. I mean, look what happened during the financial crisis.

Like it's not a new concept, but when you open up the hood, you realize that. So for me, I'm like, so aware of that. And I never ever want to be that, that I'm so conscious that with everything I do.

Skrizz   28:42
But what's the, the point, like, what are you accomplishing? I think they believe that they can fake it till they make it where it's like, they're going to be fraudulent and get enough funding that they can put, get it over the hump, you know?

Adam   28:52
Yeah. Or you just pass the buck, you pass the buck, you pass the buck and finally, you pass. It's like a hot potato.

Skrizz   28:58
Do you think they are doing it for money?

Adam   28:59
I don't know what motivates them, but it could be sure money, fame, power, like what's motivated people since the caveman days?

Skrizz   29:06
Sex.

Adam   29:07
Sex? There you go. Money, fame, power, sex. Everything.

Skrizz   29:11
Interesting. Well, that's good. I think we'll wrap it up from here, man. You guys rock.

Adam   29:16
You guys are awesome. Thank you.