The Art of Songwriting

If you’re curious about the song-writing process of Skrizzly Adams, how it compares to the likes of Pharrell, Taylor Swift, and the typical LA/Nashville songwriter, tune in to find out. Plus, a call-out from Adam on Skrizzly’s approach to writing music and how the iconic song, “Tipping Point” was written in just 15 minutes.

Transcript

Adam   0:02
Talking music, building businesses, and their crit in the journey. We're Skrizz and Adam and welcome to The Rise.

Skrizz   0:21
And we're back. Episode 2.

Adam   0:24
Let me, let me start this off with a pretty hard-hitting topic.

Skrizz   0:28
Do it.

Adam   0;29
Are you ready? Alright, so I want you to tell me, so a lot of people that are watching, especially in the early days, no, no one cares about me. Right? It's all about you. It's all about the Skrizzly Adams. I think I want to call bs on you a little bit. All right?

Skrizz   0:46
On the air.

Adam   0:47
Yeah. on the air with everyone here. I know. It's okay. I'm out here. Alright. So, so I asked you about songwriting, right? And you tell me a lot about how you go through that process. And I don't think it's as easy and quick for you, as you claim it is. And I want to call you, I want to, I want to call you out on your process so that everyone can hear it because when I heard it, I was like, how could it be that eas?

Skrizz   01:09 
I never said it was easy. Okay, like I think, I think easy is not the right word. Effortless is the word I want to use. But effortless is pretentious as fuck. So, if there's a better word for effortless, okay. I will explain the classical composer of the 20th century. What's his name? Stravinsky? He, he wrote a piece called The Rite of Spring. It's like one most innovative and most innovative pieces of modern classical music ever. And he always says I am the, I am the vessel or I'm the port from which The Rite of Spring passed. So it's like I'm a firm believer that the song writes itself like it just happens, like things just like it just happens. I am just the vehicle from which it happens in. So like, people in Nashville, people in LA, are very into the craft of songwriting. like wordsmithing or melody.

Adam   02:16
It's like the science of it.

Skrizz   02:17
The science of it. Yeah, totally. So I'm anyone that knows me knows I'm trash at the science of I don't even know what the fuck I'm doing. And I love what I do partner with people that are really great at the science of it, because they can bring my ideas to life in a more mathematical way.

Adam   02:32 
So like you don't like Dr. Dre is got his style like Taylor Swift has her style like everybody has their own style of how they write, in some of them are more scientific than others.

Skrizz   02:44 
What I've told you that people don't know which I think is your concern is that like, the biggest, by far the biggest part of songwriting for me is improvisation, like, hands down. You have actors and you have method actors. And my thing is, I will drive around for a long time. Like, I have this idea, I have this idea for a song hymn with yesterday, and I can't even words explain what it is. It's just a feeling. It's a feeling I write just write down ideas. And then what I do is once I really, really know that feeling, and I really, really see the scene in my head, and it's like, the colors and the whatever, I just pick up the guitar and I start recording. And I don't want to say it's easy, because it's not like I have this profound skill. I just, I just happen to get lucky with it, where like, very, very often what I'm recording is what the song is. I mean, a ton of like a whole song lies was completely improvised. Too close to fire, almost the whole first verse and chorus was completely improvised. But I had I had, I had the idea and I had the feeling I had the emotion and I and I just knew what it was another tipping point chorus, I just picked up the guitar and just sang it. And then like, you're missing words, then as you're missing words that you kind of manifest in your brain

Adam   03:52
And you're filling in the blank.

Skrizz   03:53
Yeah, you're filling in the blanks. So my process is really different and very rarely I am able to finish songs completely anyway, I just get the ideas across, I can get a 60% 70% done. And I think it's really, so I don't think again, easy is a testament to like you being a well-tuned muscle like a well, well-oiled machine and I think I'm total opposite. Like my biggest fear is the day it's gonna stop working. So I always talk with my mom about that all the time. Like, at some point, it's gonna stop working like it's just, it's inevitable.

Adam   04:24 
Yeah, but I would argue, No, because for you, it's not so much like you're studying the science of it. So it helps you go through the process. Like where you then go into the middle of nowhere in the woods to stay in a cabin by yourself where you just think and think and think like for you. It's I would think it's the opposite because it just comes so naturally.

Skrizz   04:43 
Sure. Like it's like this phone call that keeps coming in someday they might stop think that girl you're talking to, she calls you every day then one day and she stops calling you. I'm on you. Yeah. So I mean, that's why I'm just so obsessed with like, hyper producing, like I make like 24 songs a year. So I'm just like, I'm also when you think about like, just like, great artists that get into their 40s and 50s. At a certain point, they start sucking, you know what I mean?

Adam   05:06 
But I would, I would listen, I don't know why that's the case but I would guess it's because the inspiration goes, like right now you're super motivated, you got all this new shit happening, you're like, you're inspired. But then as life goes on your, you'd get comfy, you get settled.

Skrizz   05:20 
Totally. So that, with that being said, there is a part of effort that goes into it and that part of effort is like I said, like, when I'm driving around that I'm like, I hear I hear something in a song. I'm like, that's so interesting emotion, like, How can I do that emotion or, or like, something happens in my life and I'm like, I'm the one taking notes and saying, like, this could be a thing that people feel. I know, Pharrell works the same way. He used the term reverse engineering, I hate that term. But like, he listens to other music, and he feels things he says, this feeling this exact moment, I'm going to reverse engineer music to fit that moment.

Adam   05:57
To fit that feeling that you had, and you try to reverse engineer that to be like, whatever feeling I just had in that moment, I want to build a song to get him to bring out that feelings.

Skrizz   06:07 
And that doesn't happen every day that you have those ideas like, like, I'll say it now because if becomes something, it could be interesting, and they're only talking about future things but I was listening to an acoustic cover of the female singer Cat Power covering Oasis' wonderful. And, like wonder was like one of the biggest songs ever. And there was something about the way she had the rhythm of it that was totally different that made me pay a lot more attention to the lyrics. And I always thought the lyrics, Wonderwall were really, really good, even though they were really, really ambiguous. And I was just driving around New Jersey and it like, I mean, I don't know if what someone was really about. But like it reminded me about, this is such a weird thing. Like, it's such a weird thing. But like Bruce Springsteen has a song in Atlantic City, it has a lyric that says, I met this guy, and I'm gonna do a little favor for him which like means like, very, like, the mafia, kind of oriented, like the songs about a guy who doesn't have enough money. And he's gonna go out and have a good night regardless. And when you meet people in New Jersey just like, thank you do me a favor, and you might get paid 20k, to do something that you God wouldn't have done anything else. And that kind of made me think of the way Cat Power was singing Wonderwall, today is gonna be the day that they're all back to you, like, by now to somehow figure out what you need to do. Like that lyric. It was not what the song is about. And I was just like, that's such an interesting thing, like, and then like, what if you made that, by the way, it's almost not written? Like, what if you made? What if you made that, really, you start with the emotions that you're not talking about? And you're just talking about, like, you needing to do this job you don't want to do? And like, what if that job is like, forgetting about somebody in your life or something like it's actually more about like, you make it a relationship things like you, your ex that you haven't talked to in years, like it's time to bury, that bury that grave? You know?

Adam   08:03 
Yeah, well, I think what's interesting with what you're saying, too, is like, how a Pharrell says he basically chasing that feeling.

Skrizz   08:09
Yes, exactly.

Adam   08:10
I mean, if you think about for everybody, for all of us, like in our life, it's about how do we chase that feeling? How do we get to that feeling? How do we find things that get us to feel the way we felt in that moment that brought us happiness or whatever that emotion was? So I think that's what we're all chasing. And if you can do that through music, that's a powerful thing.

Skrizz   08:30
Totally. Totally. I think. I think the thing I try to do, which I think is different than like, the LA and the Nashville Songwriters, which are skill-wise, they're eons beyond me, is that the feeling I try to find I want to be really, really, really, really, really, really specific. And really, really, really universal the exact same time so once something's like, it's like, the reason being that like, there are feelings that like maybe everyone is gonna have in their life, and they might only experience like, once or twice, but once they experienced it, and they have a song that's affiliated with it, it's locked in.

Adam   09:09
Right, right. You don't forget that.

Skrizz   09:11
Yeah, exactly. It's just locked in super fucking hard. Whereas like, I think pop music tries to play off of, shit, I don't know, I'm gonna backtrack like it was the number one song in America right now, the number one song in America, I've only heard it once this driver's license. And I'm just trying to think like driver's license is actually a really specific emotion. It's like, it's like, like, he just got your driver's license and if we were still together, I could drive to your house. That's actually like a very specific thing that evokes a really, really good emotion that like, it actually has nothing to do with a driver's license. It's very much like.

Adam   09:46
It's all about the emotion.

Skrizz   09:48
Of like, I could have been doing this with you, but I'm not.

Adam   09:50
Dude, it's funny like I've no idea.

Skrizz   09:52
And that's why the song is huge, because everyone's hitting, it's hitting in the field super hard.

Adam   09:56
Never. I couldn't tell if that's a pop song or a hip-hop song or anything.

Skrizz   09:59
The thing is like a Disney girl I don't know she's great. I mean, I really like the song.

Adam   10:02 
But like every, even you just saying driver's license. Like that reminded me of my high school ex and just getting into a dumbass fight with her in my car. Like brats on my driver's license. And that emotion that came with that, like, things like that everybody can relate. It's a trigger. Right, like, that's why I love songs do so well, because everybody's got some type of love story good, bad, ugly, whatever that they can relate to and bring it back to.

Skrizz   10:32 
Totally agree. Totally, totally, totally agree. But I think kinda. But I think a lot of pop music is kind of cheap in that way too, though.

Adam   10:43 
Yeah, it's like a low-hanging fruit.

Skrizz   10:45
Low hanging fruit. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Adam   10:49
Alright, so explain for everybody like, what's the difference between being an indie artist, versus being supported by a record label.

Skrizz   10:56 
So you sign a $1 million deal to Sony, they give you a one check for let's say, a million? Well, they're not gonna give you a much they usually $250,000 whatever. And then your budget is this. And then you have this for marketing. And essentially, you work with that money to sell records. I mean, I want to spend a whole episode explaining this a little more. But you're not going to see a another dime. Okay, let me do the math, you are not going to see another dime until you recoup that money. But it's not recouping it 100%. So it's not like you get a million dollars and then once you sell a million wreck a million dollars worth of records, you get you start making profit. No. It's an 87 13% split. Okay? And you recoup that out of the 87, out of the 100 out of the 13. So hear me out on this was the thing, there's 13 over 87 equals So one,  100 times point eight, seven, divided by point one, three. So it's like once the once you make the record labels, $6.7 million, $6.7 million, you start seeing 13 cents on every dollar.

Adam   12:09
It's incredible.

Skrizz   12:10
It's incredible. People don't realize that, but you were given a million dollars and you take no risk.

Adam   12:14 
Well, we've talked about this last week.

Skrizz   12:16
You explain to me that, that's how startups are.

Adam   12:18
Yeah, that's, I mean, with anything, it's like when you have the money, you have the power, and the terms then get negotiated in your favor. When you don't have the money when you need the money when you need the resources, you're behind the eight ball. And that's what's like in the startup world, like.

Skrizz   12:31 
Oh, yeah. I think they've been one of my closest friends is a lawyer and he always explains to me, it's like, the truth is, is like one in every 30 actually recoup that money. So it's like, you gotta, you gotta rape them financially if you're going to fund everybody else like, and obviously this all changes when you have leverage, if me, Skrizzly is, has a record that's doing 500,000 streams a day, and we're on fire, a label is gonna be a lot more to 5050. So until then back, just being indie, being indie is like, let's say I make $5,000 a month, I'm using that money to fund advertising. I'm using that money to fund whatever I have to fund.

Adam   13:10 
Yeah, for business people, it's basically like bootstrapping, where you're just you're putting anything, anything you make, you're putting back in the business to try to grow the business, it's much, much slower.

Skrizz   13:19
I've never heard those.

Adam   13:20
Yeah, that's like in the startup world, that's like when you don't raise outside capital, it's you're trying to figure out ways to just put up the money that you need yourself to build your business. So it's a slower process. It's not like you're putting,  pouring a million dollars into something or $10 million into something and expect an explosive growth. You're bootstrapping that that's what you're doing.

Skrizz   13:37
Yes, that's exactly what it is. So with that, it's really liberating. But with that, it is what it is. I mean, I think a lot of people are seeing a lot of success, financially with it, where it's like, it's about building your monthly income, you make $2,000 a month to make $5,000 a month. Some people make $200,000 a month, you know, I mean, so that's kind of the main thing. I'll say with it. I mean, it's really like how much do you believe in yourself like, and like, also, for me, the big thing with being indie is like, like, I know, it takes half a million dollars to break an album, and I just don't have half a million dollars to break an album. So I'll spend 100,000 on this one. I'm going to spend 300 on the next one, and then I'll spend so it's like, it's like a lot of the major labels betting on out the gate number one is the big one. And I'm betting on the fact that I'm going to be able to do this over and over and over.

Adam   14:28 
Right, you're betting on yourself, like you're not just a one-hit wonder. If you thought you're a one-hit wonder, then you want to just pour everything into that.

Skrizz   14:34
Definitely go to a label, if you got one on your hands, sign a label. That's it.

Adam   14:38
Right, and just pray that they blow you up. They build out this great brand and then take off from there, in other ways exactly, but you're taking the bet of like, Hey, I can. I'm gonna keep putting out songs that are quality, quality, quality, and then eventually I'm gonna get to a point where I'm in a, I'm in a good spot. Have a good audience, bring in good money.

Skrizz   14:54 
Gotcha. Agree totally. Let me see if I got anything else here. All the instruments you play and at what age you learn them?

Adam   15:02 
I think, did I see like seven harmonicas somewhere in here.

Skrizz   15:04
Eight thousand harmonicas? Yeah. So many harmonicas.

Adam   15:09
How many different instruments, that is a good question.

Skrizz   15:12 
Yeah, so, anyone I think, I think a big misconception is that I'm a good musician. I'm what you call a bad musician but I could feel, I think that's like my forte. So I can play a lot of instruments poorly. I can play guitar, all different types of guitars, I can play harmonica, I can play bass, I can play the piano. In the past I've played violin pretty well, I can play trumpet, I can play the saxophone a little bit. Used to play a baritone.

Adam   15:39 
Is it knowing how to play one instrument? Now other instruments become easier to play? Because I feel like that's, that's how a lot of people are where they can at least.

Skrizz   15:46 
I'm really excited. I don't know when this is coming out. But uhm, Feb 5th, I have a song coming out called foolish, which I'm really, really excited about. And I sent it over to some from the distributor who handles a lot of the promotion. And I was saying like, hey, by the way, here's the new version, I think it's a lot better. And here's the sales point, I don't know if it matters at all, but I'm playing every single instrument on this song whereas on the album, I'm not playing, like this is the one song,

Adam   16:11 
So on the song, every instrument that we're gonna hear, is gonna be you playing.

Skrizz   16:14 
But I think it was funny that I had that I kind of sent the email out. And I'm like, let me listen to the instrumental real quick. And I think it's such an I'm not proud of myself as a musician but I'm super proud of myself as a songwriter where it's like, the baseline four notes. The guitar part, just three power chords, the harmonica part, four notes, and the organ part three notes. Like you, I could get a middle school band.

Adam   16:38
Right, so the simplicity of it. You can have anyone play.

Skrizz   16:41
I'm like, we wrote, we wrote, like a catchy tune out of insanely simple.

Adam   16:46 
But isn't that how most of these like big iconic songs? Is that how they are? Is it like, the simplicity always wins. It's not like.

Skrizz   16:52 
It wasn't always win. It's about simplicity so simple, as mundane and boring. If you can write something good, if you can match a truly great song with great simplicity. It's such a winner.

Adam   17:01 
Right, because it also makes it for everyone to like, jam out to, to sing to.

Skrizz   17:05 
Yeah, it's really easy, right? Really, really simple. The goal is to be simple, not simple-minded. That's the big thing. So.

Adam   17:13
You hear that? Say that one more time.

Skrizz   17:15
In music, you want the thing to be you want the music to be simple, not simple-minded. There's a huge difference. Most like, most like, you know, most aspiring musicians that write simple songs, and you're just like, blah, like, that's just simple-minded. Simple is like, this just checks off all the things.

Adam   17:31 
You're saying you want to be simple, with like depth, interesting depth to it.

Skrizz   17:34 
I don't even know.

Adam   17:35 
Not just lyrics.

Skrizz   17:36 
It's not really depth, doesn't have to be depth this on the snap depth. It's just gotta, it's just gotta kind of nailed the attitude like the song like the lyric and the bass and the vocal, and it could, it all just comes together to create something bigger than its parts, like those four fucking bass notes with those three guitar parts. They just come together to do something bigger. You know?

Adam   17:55 
it's every little detail like listening to one of your new songs coming out when we were in the car, it's like, every, like the way you dissect every little detail.

Skrizz   18:02 
Like the lay on the chorus, It's like, do you want to hear this? Like, do you not want to hear this? Like, I want to kind of hear this delay. And it's like, that's gonna make a huge difference with how potent the rest of it is, even though it's one, one tiny, tiny detail.

Adam   18:16 
I think, actually stick it on that note for a second. Like I mentioned earlier, one of the other episodes, I don't know, at this point. The playboy documentary was fascinating with Hugh Hefner. And like, one of the things I learned from that is just how Hugh was a fanatic for every little detail. Well, like, everything that got.

Skrizz   18:33
That's why his brand was so good.

Adam   18:34
Yeah, it wasn't just like the pictures of the women but there was so much depth to playboy, like it wasn't just naked women on it. It was like some of the like, they were they were like leading the way, and like the political, in the political climate, being like a civil rights activist, civil rights activists and everything like they were, they were heavily involved with all of that, which was fascinating. And Hugh was so involved in every little detail. Then you look at, you know, Steve Jobs.

Skrizz   18:58
That's exactly what I was going to say, the same exact thing. And that's why they have such great brands, their brand equity is greater than anything else.

Adam   19:06 
Right. like we see the like, whether it's Ed Sheeran, Taylor Swift, you know, Pharrell any of these people that are.

Skrizz   19:11
Taylor's a huge one on that. I don't know much about it.

Adam   19:13
Wasn't there a documentary on Taylor Swift like on her hope? Yeah, I didn't see it.

Skrizz   19:18 
But I know is Taylor is just so in control. I mean, to the point of being, you know, very intense, I'm sure but she's brilliant at it. I mean.

Adam   19:29 
You kind of have to be like, if you really want to be the best, like I was having this conversation is actually my sister a few weeks ago, and it's like, if you want to be like, the best of the best of the best. Like the top of the line, which is like the 1% of the 1% of the 1%. Like in order to get there like you got to be a hardass on these little details because a little, the difference between a song being very good, versus a song being iconic.

Skrizz   19:53 
I mean, that goes back to the business too. It's like, also like, if you have someone working with you who shows up to phone calls, 15 minutes late, that reflects you.  And it's like, it's like you have to there's a lot. I mean, that goes into a lot of things like all the people around you and like, how they're being viewed and like, like everyone's work and everyone's thing. It's like it all

Adam   20:14 
Everything that goes into like, Skrizzly Adams as a business. Like every little thing that goes into you as a brand. And if someone who works with you, is not following the brand the way it should be, that hurts you. That hurts your brand credibility. You know? Like, It's what I was thinking about like when, when, with the different things that I'm working on, and like, when I am in my last business, my tech startup like every little thing, and getting across the team members, like if you spell something wrong in an email, that makes us look bad. That makes our company look bad. Yeah. Like it's just like every little thing go.

Skrizz   20:50 
One side story, I always have this friend of me not as a friend but a partner of mine, James, I, I do a lot of typos. I'm kind of known for it. And I'm like, What's his name? Like? Mark Cuban are all those guys? Kings, Kings of type it was one. We're all billionaires. Their status where they can read, read where they can literally edit them? Yeah, they never change them. They never changed them. And they are because they're almost coming off as like, I'm busy. I have bigger things to worry about grammar, it's the truest thing but I will say I'm a no business, I'm no business. So I, I'm mainly a bad type, but I was like, I was like, Nah, man. I was like, I was like, yo, you fucked up everything in that email. And I was like, Nah, man, it's a flex, like they're gonna No, no, I know. I'm like a future billionaire. And like, no, they probably think you're a fucking idiot.

Adam   21:43 
Like this guy just doesn't care.

Skrizz   21:45
I was like, I don't care but you are right.

Adam   21:47
So it's funny. Speaking of Cuban, so I reached out back when I was a senior in college. I was running this entrepreneur program that we were starting out but I wanted him to come to speak at my school, so I like sent him a couple of emails he finally got back I mean all he said was like, wish I could dot dot THX thanks and like he had like some things spelled wrong and I was like, first of all, it's awesome that he responded to this like 21-year-old kid about comming and that was the coolest fucking email that I've ever seen. Like, I've never, I haven't seen someone write THX and ever but now it's all I want to do is write THX no more a, n, k, s no more.

Skrizz   22:19
THX everybody.