I Almost Quit

On this episode we talk about why Skrizz got into music - Adam as an entrepreneur, and if there was ever a time where they almost called it quits. We'll talk about how one of Skrizz' songs went from getting no support to winning the International Song-writing competition. The episode finishes with a story from Adam sharing the dark-side of entrepreneurship - and how parting ways with one of his co-founders almost ended his business.

Transcript

Adam   0:02
Talking music, building businesses, and their crit in the journey. We're Skrizz and Adam and welcome to The Rise.

Skrizz   0:19
and we are rolling. Adam, how are you doing?

Adam   0:21
I'm doing well, doing well. I have my, uh, at my every Thursday drive now this is becoming a good routine here.

Skrizz   0:27
It's good.

Adam   0:28
Going from upstate New York down to, uh, Good old New Jersey.

Skrizz   0:30
Yeah. It's um, for those who don't know today was a snowstorm last night and Adam survived just great.

Adam   0:36
I did. Luckily, uh, now being up here, you have to have four-wheel drive. If you don't, you just, you can't really get four-wheel, all-wheel. Actually, I have all-wheel. I still don't fully know the difference between four-wheel and all-wheel, but that's another podcast for another day.

Skrizz   0:51
I think all-wheel generally is automatic and then four-wheel you go from two to four. So my truck has four-wheel, but my father's Honda is all-wheel it's automatic. Okay. That's completely irrelevant.

Adam   01:01
Yeah. Let's get into why we are here today.

Skrizz   01:03
So on the rise doing it,

Adam   01:05
We're on the rise. We're doing it. So what I was thinking about and the drive over that I want to talk about with you cause I know at least for myself, I've experienced like this. I know you do too, And I'm sure really, everybody has these types of experiences and I think it's an interesting topic, so I'm gonna hit you with it. So, number one, I guess before we even jump into the real point is what even made you want to get into the music industry.

Skrizz   01:28
Sure. Um, so I think like, I always tell people this, that, um, it's like, there's this, this gravity and I can't really explain what it is. I think those who are crazy enough and stubborn enough to do music, which I think is like the statistics of doing it professionally or just like not in your favor at all is that music chooses you, you don't choose music. I just knew from. It's funny. Cause it's not like I, I knew I wanted to be Skrizzly singing

I didn't know I wanted to do all that. Like, it's something I knew, but I knew I knew it at like earlier than 10 years old that I wanted to make music. You know what I mean? And I, I couldn't even explain what that was. It's a really hard thing to explain. I played several instruments, but I knew I wanted to create music.

I know that like, from my mind I wanted to make music and that was just something that like, just, overtook my body for, from that moment until now. I mean, so, I mean, I think that that formulated more in like teenage years into like writing songs and like doing stuff like that. And then from there, you're learning to play the instrument and you're writing the song and you're writing lyrics and then you're singing the song.

And then, um, but yeah, it's not some romantic thing mean you, you hear so much about, um, Like in the sixties, like everyone saw the Beatles on TV. It was, I forget what show it was. Everyone saw the Beatles on TV in 1962 or 64, whatever it was. And then everyone who became a seventies rock star, like that was the pivotal moment in their life.

There was never really anything like that for me, it was just, um, it was just this gravity to create. And I think, I always tell people I'm not very visually oriented, but I'm very like audibly oriented. So like that became my avenue. Um, so I'm gonna flip it on you. So for me, it's music, but you think you're different because music is like a, an exact thing and it's an exact passion, but, um, in being a musician, I'm an entrepreneur and I've always wanted to be an entrepreneur.

That I think that, that, like, I want to be other things outside of music that fall under the umbrella of entrepreneur. But I think for you, the passion was being an entrepreneur and obviously you had to start a business that you were able to sell at a young age. So the question for you was that startup business, the passion, or was just being an entrepreneurial passion. And if so, if both, which one came first?

Adam   03:46
Great question. So it was a little bit of both, but even to take it a step back when I was, when I was a kid, like, I always want to be something great. Like I want it to be a professional baseball player. Then when I realized that wasn't happening, I was like, I want to be a general manager of a sports team. And then I did some internships.

Skrizz   04:03
We can roll that one out. I mean, a lot of people enter that in their forties and fifties.

Adam   04:05
Sure, sure. But like I did an internship, a couple of internships in college with baseball team, because I was a sport management major and I did it and I was like, screw this, like in order to get to that part in the field, you have to love every little section of working in the sports field. And I want to know part of it. But a lot of.

Skrizz   04:23
Can I stop you for a second? My question is, so if you're that passionate about baseball, and I know this from music that you have to love every little element of it too. Can you, can you just name, like what in the baseball industry was the turnoff that was. What was the straw that broke the camel's back?

Adam   04:38
Yeah, it was. I realized I didn't love it. I realized you had to eat, sleep, drink, absolutely fall in love with it. And what really broke the straw that broke the camel's back on that was, I was doing an internship with a minor league baseball team in New Yor, it's the Hudson valley renegades. And I wasn't getting paid a dollar, not a dollar. And I drive there every day. I was spending 10, 12, 14 hour days during their game days. And I went to go grab a hotdog. And I remember I came back with my free hotdog, which I thought was fair. Like I'm working, giving them 12, 14 hours of free labor. And they're like, Hey Adam, you got to pay us a dollar 50 for this hot dog. And I'm like, okay.

Skrizz   05:17
Yeah, that's it.

Adam   05:18
If this industry is that cheap and I, and I'm looking at the people who would be, who I would be elevating too. And I was like, I don't want to have this job. I'm not that interested in it. Um, and that was the big culmination into the next year in college. I took an entrepreneurship class by happenstance. I honestly didn't even know what the hell entrepreneurship was until that point. Fell in love with the class, the professor and I hit it off. She was starting an entrepreneurial program. She hired me to be like the full-time CEO intern of the program. And then from there I was like, all right, I got to start my own business.

Skrizz   05:48
Okay. So, if you were to put in one sentence, what's the foundation of that business, which is now sold, so you don't even work in that business anymore. Like, like I work in music or someone works in film or you wanted to work in baseball. What's the?

Adam   06:01
So the foundation of that business was we wanted to help college students succeed. That was at its core, how it started.

Skrizz   06:08
Professionally.

Adam   06:09
Professionally. Exactly. So we want it to help the college students that we're putting in the most, you know, the ones that are going above and beyond outside of the classroom, we want to reward them for their extra effort. So that was our whole focus from day one. It changed a million times throughout the business and it was something that was a passion project for us and it turned into a, you know, a decent little business, um, but I've learned as time goes on, I have tons of interests, you know, like you are in love with music, but there's different parts of music that you're in love.

Skrizz   06:36
Sure. Totally

Adam   06:37
Like the production side of it. The, the writing side of it, the like, I'm sure there's all these different parts of the music industry that you fall in love with.

Skrizz   06:44
Totally. Totally. It was like resilient. Um, all right. Cool. Interesting. So I think I kinda want to backtrack, tell me if I'm wrong. I think, I think the analogy I will make for you with baseball is like when a kid almost like sees like a rock star type figure or something like that. And they fall really, really in love with that. And then when it comes to getting into the belly of the beast, they realize it isn't quite what they thought it was. But you at a certain age, realize you love the hustle and then want to do, apply that to a situation which was more rewarding.


Adam   07:17
Exactly. So I want to actually dive back into you, with music, because I think it's such a, it's such a tangible thing that so many people want to do. Just like being a professional athlete. Like everyone has a kid wants to be a professional athlete.

Skrizz   07:28
But not everyone's Tom Brady.

Adam   07:30
Exactly. There's very few, there's one, just one there's one Tom Brady. Guy's a legend. Um, and that's coming from a jets fan,

Skrizz   07:34
Yeah, we lived in Boston for a bit, so.

Adam   07:38
That's true. Um, but yeah, like everybody wants to be a musician. So was it, and I know you said it was just. It seemed like it came very organically, but it wasn't like you're watching American idol or you went to a concert or you met an artist and you were like, I need to be this.

Skrizz   07:56
For sure. I think, I think it's actually really similar to what you said about your startup, where it's like, it's like a very evolving thing. And even like, it's like, At 10 years old, I wanted to do this with music. At 30, I wanted to do that with music. At 18, I wanted to do that with music. At 21, I wanted it to do that.

Even me doing what everyone thinks I am doing right now. Like I'm shifting like all the time. So it's like, it's like a constant, well, first of all, the industry is changing. This is like with any industry. So the industries are changing like crazy. Um, But I think, I think I was just so blessed that I just loved music. You know what I mean? And when you love music, as much as anyone crazy enough to do it, like you're able to pivot, you're able to, I mean, I think we always talk about, like, the, I'm not gonna name any names, but like, like the great producers who were able to last the test of time.

I mean, I'm trying to think. Who was it? Was it like Quincy Jones? He was a producer for like five. He dominated like five decades. And then you have like hip hop producers nowadays, who like these years, like one year where they reign Supreme and then, then they're over and it's really a game of adapt or die. And there are so many, so many legends and music that really just didn't adapt or die. And I think, I think that it's easy to see that whenever someone's on top of the mountain, that they were able to adapt or die, they were able to adapt or are in flourish or they didn't adapt and they died.

But the truth is like the bottom feeders, that's just the way bottom, like who are just maybe on the runway or not even on the runway yet. Like it's the exact same game. I mean, you have to call audibles all the time. You have to change and you have to pivot and you have to realize. You know, and I feel bad for people that maybe are just obsessed with one thing. Like they're obsessed with being this artist and this five batch of songs, and they want to do it with this label and they want to be doing this and they, and it's just never going to pan out like that. So, I forgot what your original question even was, but I think it's all a Testament that like, if you love it enough, you're going to pivot, you know?

Adam   10:04
Yeah. You have to with anything, I don't care what industry it's in. As you said before, you have to pivot, think of it, all these companies that you grew up with that are now dead or dying, you know, obviously.

Skrizz   10:15
Yeah. Totally different industry that everyone bet against.

Adam   10:19
Everybody bet against it. You, I mean, GameStop obviously is very hot in the news and they had a nice little rise, but obviously it's a different reason. Like everyone knows about GameStop because they're a dying company, no disrespect to game stop bwut when we were growing up, that's where everyone went to go get their games. But if you don't adapt, if you don't continue to evolve with the times. You're done because every, there are so many people that are at the bottom that are hungry, that are willing to fight and claw and figure out

Skrizz   10:43
Well, I think it goes back to your hotdog thing. It's like, it's like in music, I've done the hot dog thing a million times. That's cause I knew that's what I wanted. You know what I mean? So it's like, um, there are so many people five steps below you that can pass you in six steps by doing the, the, just by biting the bullet, taking the high road. You know?

Adam   11:02
Well, I think that's going back. We're gonna use hotdog might be the, like the real center point of this podcast, but I think it's true.

Skrizz   11:09
Are you willing to? It's, it's $1 and 50 cents doesn't mean anything, but are you willing to pay for the hotdog or not like that? That's a huge analogy. Yeah.

Adam   11:18
Find the thing that you're willing to pay for that dollar 50 hotdog.

Skrizz   11:43
I think I don't know if I've mentioned this before on this show, but like, there was like a one-time. I, I played like, um, I played like a three hour. Like a three hour, like private party kind of open to the public to, it was like, it was grueling. I played it early. It was the mid, mid-day. I mean, I was drenched in sweat, my back hurt. I think I made $0. So I had to pay for gas.

And then I went to go pick up a girlfriend at the time from a country concert. I don't want to say who the artist was. And she paid hundreds of dollars for the ticket and got in the car with her friend and just complained the entire time, how they played, how they played 10 songs. And for me, rather than being bitter and being like, why is he making, you know, a hundred K a night, and I'm getting paid zero? I was just like, I was euphorically proud. I was like, well, at least I know I'm doing the right thing. I know if there were 15 people at that party, I played. They saw me play for three hours and I sweat and made no money. And I turned them all into lifelong learners. You know what I mean?

Adam   12:21
That literally a sweat equity.

Skrizz   12:23
Sweat, that's literally sweat equity, but the thing is like the hot dog thing. It's like, if you, if you take the hot dog, if you pay, if you take paying for the hot dog and pride, then you're in it for the long haul.

Adam   12:30
Exactly.

Skrizz   12:31
It's a, it's a badge of honor. Um.

Adam   12:33
Exactly with them. I was like, why the hell am I doing this when I don't even want, this is not in true alignment with what I love and what I want to spend the rest of my life doing. So, So that that's helpful and understandable. I actually had no idea that that was even how you got into music. Um, even though it's not some like major epiphany.

Skrizz   12:51
No, it's not epiphany, just a gravity.

Adam   12:52
Right? But, but what I'm curious about now, digging deeper into that, and this is kind of the uglier, dirtier side. I don't want to say dirty. That's not the right word, but like more of the.

Skrizz   13:02
Less romantic.

Adam   13:03
Yeah. Thank you. Wow, you're such a lyricist and I come on and get a gift for you. Um, The less romantic side that I want. And I know you want to talk more about in this podcast. Like, we don't want to talk about the wins and the highs.

Skrizz   13:15
That's the disclaimer, those listening to the podcast, me, and Adam aren't anybody. That's why this is The Rise. You know, we're not here to be gurus, lecturing, anybody on music or business. We haven't accomplished jack shit. But we're here to just discuss. So anyone else trying to enter the conversation, maybe we'll have a nugget for you or maybe. Let me be the hot dog thing. We'll do it for you. But yeah. So we'll talk about the ugly stuff. What exactly are you asking?

Adam   13:39
Yeah. And real quick on that actually like that, that is the whole point of this is we want to focus in on where we want it. We'rem we're we started at point a, we want to get to point B and all this stuff here is the good shit. And we want to be talking.

Skrizz   13:51
We just want to document it. Exactly.

Adam   13:52
Exactly.

Skrizz   13:53
I think you've met. I don't know about you, but where I want to get in music or professionally is. Maybe a thousand times farther than where I'm at now. I mean, I'm super proud of where I'm at, but I want to get a thousand times further. So we're just doing this a document and we'll be bringing other people on to, uh, talk about kind of the same thing. Um, so yeah. Sorry, what was the question?

Adam   14:13
So anyway, what I'm curious about and mine will be a little different, cause mine's a specific business, but for you, what was there a time? And if there was, what was the moment where you were like, fuck this man, I'm ready to tap out.

Skrizz   14:30
Um, yeah, I can definitely think of like, one exact moment. I mean, I'm really lucky. I'll just do the disclaimer. I'll say I'm really lucky to save that. I think I've really only had one of those moments I've never, never thought about not doing music. So I'm really, really, really, really lucky. And I did it. I started doing it professionally young enough that I was able to make it happen at the same time. I will say I've done tons of other jobs. I've been on Atlantic records and worked Uber. I worked at a sub shop. I've done lots of other jobs while doing music and in music, I do a lot of other jobs outside my artist's career, still to this day. That I use to further fund my artist career. Um, but in terms of like, just giving up and saying, I can't do it anymore.

Adam   15:13
Like you're ready to go get a job.

Skrizz   15:15
I want to keep this as short as possible. But, um, I mean, I think it wasn't even like me thinking about getting a job somewhere else was just me, but it's like, it's like hands in the air. Like I gave up, you know what I mean? It was just really tough. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to shit on anybody, but like my situation with Atlantic records was we just, we weren't releasing music.

And there was no talk of releasing music and there was no talk of making maybe hypothetically better music. There was no, there was no, there was just no conversation. I mean, my NR disappeared for five months at a time once, you couldn't get a hold of them, I mean, that should be enough for any CEO to fire that person instead of that guy got promotion. You know what I mean?

So it's like, It's like at that point when you're, when you, and then the funny thing is I would love to backtrack. I think the year before this, this moment I, I wrote something like, I think I wrote if you know my catalog to those listening, I think I wrote dance with darkness, take a sip, young man, because it's wrong, rattle your cage, and like one more, all in one year. So it was like, it was a really good run, you know what I mean? Like I thought I did at that era. That was my best, you know what I mean? And I mean, there's, uh, there's plaques in the other room to show for it. Um, but at the time the music wasn't out and we didn't know, and I just thought it was great and no one told me it wasn't great, but no one told me anything. You know what I mean?

So I think there was a point where, um, we were going to release one song with Atlantic records, tipping point. And, um, it was just a tough time. I don't want to over, over, over, over, over speak here, the streaming just wasn't a thing. It still was still, it was becoming a thing, but even if it was whatever it was of a thing I wasn't welcome. I know I wasn't welcome. And I had no way of becoming welcome and I just didn't know what to do. I mean, I knew that when we put it out, it was just going to flop.

Adam   17:09
Why did you know it was going to flop?

Skrizz   17:10
There was no one there to listen to it. If there was no marketing support and there was no curator supporting it. And my fan base at the time was only a few people. It wasn't.

Adam   17:19
Give us a time frame in terms of what year was this, roughly?

Skrizz   17:22
2015.

Adam   17:24
2015. In Spotify, yhe streaming services were not big at the time.

Skrizz   17:28
They weren't anything like right now. They weren't anything like now, let alone making rock with trap drums. It wasn't rock, it was pop and I wasn't big enough to be pop artist. So like, it just wasn't in some ways I was too ahead of my time and set out. I was just too out of the box. I wasn't popular enough to force anybody's hand. I mean, kind of where I'm at now is where I became for my, my, my, my, my, my what's the room saying. My planner, how I did it was that I just organically became popular enough to force people's hand.

And that was kind of my, my, my method, you know, the whole time. And that took years. I mean, I, I can't say anything when viral until the end of 2018, and I think I've known you for years before then. So it took a really long thing, so, okay. So that was doing it since 2014. So it took a really long time of, um, I'll give credit to my lawyer, Charlie, who was a good friend of mine and said, essentially, just like, if you build it, they will come philosophy.

And for a kid who was stuck in a record deal, where we're kind of out of money and. We had no idea what the future held for DSPs. And we were getting no communication. And also if we released music and it blew up and I did, I went rogue and did it, I owned none of it and it wasn't making any money.

So the main thing about my model was if I released music on my own, at least that was making two K a month, then 5k month, then whatever. And I was able to fund myself. I wasn't getting that. So there was like, it just seemed like a cycle that made no sense. You know what I mean? So, and, and let alone the fact that, like you tell someone that you're going to release music for three years, and you're never, you're never going to get a pat on the back, but eventually it's going to work. You know what I mean?

And that's kinda where I'm at now too. Like, I'm so lucky now where I've released songs and I get millions of streams and we're getting all this support. Um, shout out to the people at Amazon, Spotify, uh, Apple Music, but like, even that same thing, I'm like, I need to chip away at this for three more years to get to that next level. And, uh, there's always something scary in the unknown. So I remember at one point, um, upon the release and just kind of getting phone calls back saying that no one. No one wants to support the song and that,

Adam   19:30
What does that mean no one wants to support the song? They don't want to put more money behind it?

Skrizz   19:35
It's not a money thing. Money didn't like do anything back then unless it was radio, but that was no one was going to radio. It was just more like Spotify. I mean, um, Spotify, Apple, Amazon, like.

Adam   19:45
None of them wanted to get behind the song.

Skrizz   19:46
Exactly. So. And then the song ended up winning the international songwriting competition, like a few months later, which everyone who's won has gone platinum.

Adam   19:55
How does that happen?

Skrizz   19:56
I don't know. It's an anomaly.

Adam   19:58
 So like who, right? Like who found that? Who, what organization found that, but Pandora and Spotify and Apple Music or Amazon.

Skrizz   20:09
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised that the people at Atlantic records never even reached out. Like, honestly, like I'll tell you one thing when I release a song. I mean, I'm personally calling everybody, you know what I mean?

Adam   20:19
Of course, you're hustling.

Skrizz   20:20
So I don't really know, but there was a moment I remember sitting on my piano stool and just being like, I have no idea what to do. And the sad part was there was no, like I called everybody in the grim and figure it out. And there was an attitude shift, but there was, there was no solution. It literally was just a centimeter of progress every single day. And to getting out of the deal, which took six months and then releasing music and it flopping and then losing music again and flopping, but then seeing some of the older songs get a little more popular and a little more popular until something finally went viral, you know?

Adam   20:56
And what was that song, what was that?

Skrizz   20:58
That was dance with darkness just went viral in, uh, like November, 2018.

Adam   21:01
Interesting. And you basically for you, you weren't even. Even at that time at the caliber of viral, I remember bringing it to people in the music industry and you know, it was like, it was like 30,000 streams a day on Spotify just isn't enough. You know what I mean? It isn't enough to matter.

Skrizz   21:12
So walk me through, even like, when you sit, when you sit in one of those meetings.

Adam   21:16
It's even phone calls

Skrizz   21:17
Or phone calls, whatever it is in person, phone call, it doesn't matter. Like what, what is your basically hop on the phone? You're like, Hey, did you listen? They're like, yeah, listen or listen to some of it, or I think it's great. Or I don't think it's, like I said, bullshit. Like, are they just telling you what they think you want to hear or they shooting you straight? How, how does that conversation happen?

Skrizz   21:33
I mean, it's like they shoot you straight. No, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus here. Um, it's like, I think when people reach out, like, I know a lot of the European live industry reached out and they were super interested and once they find something they don't like, they immediately change. That's kind of the way it works, where they realize, like, I don't wanna throw anyone under the bus here.

They find something in your organization that they don't like, or they find something about your track record that they don't like, or they realize this success is just way too new, you know? And then there's like, oh, well we thought this now we think this vibe. You know what I mean?

I was like, this is brilliant. Like, I remember someone saying like, this is brilliant. And then I'm like, okay, great. Let's do a show in Austria. And then they're like, oh, we can't because your middle name is Jacob. You know what I mean? Or like, you know what I mean? Like it's essentially that relevant. Um, but, uh.

Adam   22:24
What I love is like you, you got to have such tough skin if you're going to be going into.

Skrizz   22:29
Sure, sure.

Adam   22:30
I mean, really any of these it's like when you go and shop, it's like watching shark tank, which is similar to being, you know, in a situation.

Skrizz   22:36
For sure. People to your face literally saying like this isn't going to work because of XYZ.

Adam   22:40
You know, like Mr. Wonderful, anyone watching shark tank, they're like, this business sucks, burn it, throw it, throw it away, and start something new. And artists hear that all the time. And some ends up making it after that and others don't, but it's like, you got to look inside yourself and say, all right, do I actually have what it takes to make it? And am I willing to go through all the dirt that it takes to get there?

Skrizz   23:01
Yeah, no, I mean, I can I say in music at people in shark tank, you're probably more intelligent than people in music, I would assume, but people in music really don't know anything. I mean, that's the astonishing part.

Adam   23:11
When you say they don't know anything, do you mean like in the industry or do you mean anything about even just music in general?

Skrizz   23:16
More so music, big ones, music, but more so what's going to work and what's not, you know what I mean? Which is why music has become like, pretty much strictly an analytics business at this point, which I think is for the better, but the problem is then you just. When it becomes an analytics business, you just perpetuate what's already working. That's the problem.

Adam   23:36
Sure. Yeah. Then you just like.

Skrizz   23:38
The funny thing is that I would love it to talk about this more, but like back in the mafia days, like in the sixties with like, when it was like all the mafia that ran the music industry and they just had so much money and they were like, they weren't music people at all. They were like the cigar smoking, super conservative guys in suits.

And they weren't like, they weren't thinking about music. They're like, you, you, you, you, you, one hundred K, 100K, 100K, 100K 100k, go. And that was all they did. Now, it's just like, I mean, you know the types. People went to college, they have internships and then they live in Manhattan and they work up and they just like.

Adam   24:17
They want to act like they're the smartest person in the room.

Skrizz   24:19
They know everything about music. And they're like, it's like, hmm, the face tag kids' working, like we need six more face tag kids. It's like, that's exactly what you should not be doing. Um, so yeah. So talk to me, did you have a moment where, thought would have given up? Or there's not like one more you did give up and something a little more.

Adam   24:39
Yeah. Yeah. No. Well, so we had our company for five years. The first year was basically an R and D project for what was our original business that turned into our main business that we ended up selling. So when we first started the company, I did it, I started with two other co-founders one of which he was a good friend of mine. We went to school together. We did a one-year MBA together. We liked did everything together, very close.

The other gentleman I met, um, he was an alum of my college, five years older than me and we met, um, through the entrepreneurial program I started. So the three of us started the company. We went full steam ahead for a few years. During that time, we ended up hiring two more people on the tech side, who we ended up calling co-founders. So we had five co-founders.

By the time we sold the company, it was myself and one other co-founder, the alumni of my college who, uh, you know, we've been partners ever since and amazing relationship. But anyway, one of the co-founders who I was very close with. We had to make the tough decision to fire him.

Skrizz   25:38
Oh wow.

Adam   25:39
And a lot of people don't know, like when people hear about co-founders getting fired, I hear a lot about how is that possible? How can you get fired from your own company? But it's, uh, it happens more than people even realize.

Skrizz   25:49
So if you want me to ask, throwing your guy under the bus, why?

Adam   25:53
Two main reasons. One results. And then two, he was in our opinion becoming, uh, uh, not. Trying to think of the right way to word it, but basically the, the culture fit wasn't there anymore. He was becoming in my opinion, abrasive and just kind of go in his own way, just solo path and not in alignment with the rest of the team.

Um, so anyway, I remember going into my, I was in the office on a weekend. It was my co-founder and I, the one that obviously I'm still working with, and he said, Hey Adam, I think we should make this decision. After speaking about it, I was on board. We called in our CTO at the time he was on board, we made the decision and then, you know, the next day we had to let him go, which was an incredibly difficult thing, as you can imagine.

Um, but the reason why this is related to when we almost quit is because things started to get a little bit ugly. Where there some threatening of the present, you know, you know, taken as much of the company as possible in. In startups, there tend to be terms where you have to work a certain amount of time in order for your stock to vest.

So either when you start a company, let's say you have 25% of the company. Year one, you get a quarter of that. Year two, you get half of it. Year three, you get three-quarters of it and you're four, you finally get all of your equity. It's all vested.

Skrizz   27:14
And he didn't get all the time.

Adam   27:15
So we let him go about two years into the company. So we all, the three of us had two years of vesting. So we all had half of our total equity. He and his lawyer made the case that he should be duo his full equity. And I remember I was like, I worked like a dog, like seven days a week, always in the office. And this was one of the few times I left.

Like I took a vacation. I went to Hawaii to visit my dad who lives in Hawaii and I'm in Hawaii. And my business partner calls me. He's like, Adam, So-and-so you know, their lawyer said that they're going to get full equity. I spoke to our investors, they agree. He probably is going to get his full equity. And what do you want to do? So basically we had to make the decision. We can either buy him out for an insane amount of money or.

Skrizz   28:00
You didn't see that coming. You don't think.

Adam   28:02
No. Or we could basically work for this guy. We only had half of our equity vested. He had his full equity vested, and basically we for the next, however many years are going to be working to make this guy a lot of money. And I'm just like, fuck that, that ain't worth it. Fuck that. No shot in hell I'm going to do that?

Skrizz   28:20
It's just a tricky situation. Yeah.

Adam   28:22
Long story short, their attorney was totally wrong.

Skrizz   28:25
That's great. That's an interesting story. That's great.

Adam   28:28
We had the worst attorney of all time. The word, like we had the worst attorney, I kid you not like he was at, and he's a very smart guy. I'm sure it is very well for other people, for us. I think we must owe him money. I don't think he charged us for anything. Like, he just was so aloof. Like he was just so bad, but I remember my co-founder and I, we were like digging into this problem. Like, dude, there's no way that he should get his full equity.

So we're digging into everything in this contract researching it. And we're like, there's no way, but our investors who are incredibly smarter, like no. He's probably gonna get it. Like, that's just, that's how it is guys. I'm sorry. I'm like no way. So my business partner calls our attorney and he explains the situation, reads a line for line.

And our attorney's like, yeah, what are you guys worried about? He doesn't get as full equity and we're like, You sure. He's like, yeah, I'm sure this is pretty obvious. So thankfully he didn't get his full equity. Um, but you know, we took care of that situation and we ended up having the company for a few more years and that's great how it got acquired and it worked out for everybody and, and you know, the gentleman who we let go, um, friendly with him, Craig, you know, I wish them the best. Very good guy. Nothing but love for him. Just wasn't a good fit at the time. Exactly.

Skrizz   29:39
Cool. Very good story, man. Okay?

Adam   29:42
Let's do it.